Yesterday Dylan, Izzy, Myself, Holly and Daphne had an email debate on a few things. And since I don't really think any of us ended up agreeing with each other (except for Dylan and Holly) I wanted to open it up to all of you.
It started off with me bringing up the fact that a stripper in Vegas that I thought was hot ended up not being when I actually saw a picture one of us got of his entire face. See that night he had a hat on that covered his eyes and most of his nose. To my surprise though not everyone, barley anyone, agreed with me. So I got to thinking....I always thought men were either hot, cute, okay or ugly and that everyone would agree on what category a man would fall in. I mean if he's hot he's hon and if he's not he's not right? Well obviously not. I will post a picture of the one I don't think is hot, and a picture of one I really thought was hot. Now both Dylan and Holly's opinions on these two guys are complete opposite of my thoughts...What do you think?
HOT
NOT
I guess sometimes it falls into what do you like? Blond? Light? Brown eyes? Etc. Etc. But when a guy has a big nose, sunken eyes and long pushed back teeth with bad lips I would think he is just ugly. lol. See how different we can all be. But moving on here.....
That was not the only thing we all disagreed on yesterday. I also said that I think strip clubs for men vs. women are totally different. And that I think a lap dance for a woman is more okay than for a guy. Take for example when we got our dances. The music was modern pop it wasn't sooooo dark, we were all together laughing and yelling. The guys actually would pose for pictures as they were doing the dances. It was more in fun then let me turn you on. Now down stairs where the women danced my husband also got a dance along with a few other men. Down there it is dark the women don't dance they gyrate their hips on a pole and slap their boobs around, then when they give you a dance there is nothing fun about it. It is all about turning the men on and such. I mean come on the woman asked my husband if he wanted to go into the VIP room in the back for a half hour, it would only be $300 and she would ..... yeah I think you know. And your gonna tell me that there is no differences between the two? You can't even have a camera where the girls dance. If it is the same why is that different?
I'm gonna let you see some of the emails going back and forth between us girls. Then I want your opinions too. But don't get confused if we jump around a lot down here, there were over 100 emails and so I'll just be posting up a few.
(okay so the day started with a few emails back and forth on men being hot or not, then it moved on to strip clubs. I took a break from emailing since I wasn't feeling well, and when I got back there were a ton of emails. I'll show you a few then I'll show you my responses.)
Dylan:
Hey wait...so how did the whole strip clubbing business come around? So did you guys change your mind the whole touching is cheating business at the strip club? Cause you naughty girls were all about the touching, LMAO.
(she is saying this cause my rule always was you can go but you can't touch, but you'll see in my next email what my thoughts were behind letting it be in Vegas)
Holly:
The atmosphere is different from the men and women. Where the girls are, it's dark and quiet and the guys just sit and drool, they don't talk or laugh or whatever. But with the men, the girls are all wild and crazy, snapping pics and cat calling, plus, it's darker where the girls are. That's why she says it's different.
I disagree. What's good for the gander is good for the goose, but whatever. The thing is, having been there now, it didn't bother me at all to see MM in the strip club. Even knowing a stripper sat on his lap and he touched her boob doesn't' bother me. But whatever, Niks is weird. LOL
Izzy:
The way I see it, yeah we drooled over the guys, but we're screaming, laughing giggling, and all that. We go to have fun and have a few laughs. Guy go to get horny.
Dylan:
Alright, this is going to be our first debate Nikki...because I don't see how the whole atmosphere being different to be a factor in why it's okay for you to get lap dances but not Josh...no matter what kind of atmosphere there are at the strip club, these are the facts: Some guy is dancing all up on you and you're touching his family jewels and just having a good time, as long as you don't go home with the guy, why can't Josh do the same? Josh paid for his lap dance, so he cops a feel on the girl, she does a little dance for him, throws her boobs in his face, whatever...at the end of the night, Josh comes home to you, so regardless of the atmosphere, if it's okay for you to get your fun on with a stripper, then why is it a big deal if Josh is doing the same?
Me:
Ummmm, NO! Goodness, I go take a rest and you girls get it all mixed up! lol. I had no problem with Josh getting a lap dance in Vegas. But my rule still stands that he can't ever get one again. Over in Vegas it's like that saying "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" DON'T BRING IT HOME! Now can Josh go to strip clubs here? If it is for a bachelor party yes, just to hang no. That's my rules plain and simple.
Is it different for guys and girls? (lap dances/strip clubs) YES! Don't know why but it is. The guys sit and drink and look at a girl with barley any panties on gyrate her hips on a pole the entire reason for a lap dance is to get them all horny. For the women the guys were really dancing to pop music and they were laughing and having a good time. When we got a dance they would strike a pose for a picture. IF you want to say it's the same thing why can't the men take pictures? Cause it's not the same at all.
But in saying all that, I wasn't mad at Josh for his lap dances. I thought I would be but when he told me I didn't' care.
Oh and how bout this.....the girl that danced for Josh asked him if he wanted to go to the VIP room and said it would be $300 for a half hour and she would suck his dick! Hmmmm, how many guys offered to eat us? Yeah didn't think so. VERY different!
Dylan:
Okay nowhere did we mention anything about blow jobs, that's a different debate, one we'll ALL be on the same page about...but we're talking lap dances, doing the same thing YOU GUYS did at the strip club, none of this bringing in other stuff nobody knew about.
As far as bringing it home...so you're saying that Josh can't go to strip clubs at home at all, but you can? Right? That's what I remember you saying, which is what sparked the whole goose and gander thing...so can he and can you?
Me:
Josh has before and I'm still fine with him going to a strip club FOR A BACHLOR PARTY ONLY! I do not think it is okay for him to just go for the heck of it.
I will probably only ever go to a strip club if my sisters want to go. Neither have gone and if they go I'll go with them. But will I make a weekend trip thing out of it all the time? NO. I don't think it's good for either guys or girls to do that all the time.
And the blow job thing is part of it, cause that is why it is not okay for lap dances, and why it is different for men. Cause that is what happens some of the time. And it has nothing to do with OUR guys it has to do with the girls. I mean really think about it, do you hear of girls going to strip clubs and get guys offering to go down on them in a VIP room for $300???
Holly:
So by your own admission it's ok for you to go with your sisters, but it's not ok for josh unless he's going to a bachelor party? HELLO DOUBLE STANDARDS! And it is NOT different because of the blow job thing. PuhLEEZ! I think what it comes down to is if you guy WOULD TAKE THE BJ OR NOT! So...unless you think he's screwing around on you, I don't see why you'd get upset...
Me:
No that's not right at all. His bachelor party thing is the same as my sister thing. Both puts limits on how often we would go. Josh goes to a bachelor party what? Maybe two a year, max. I would go with my sisters once for their first time. So that's about the same. What is the double standard there? And I don't care how much anyone argues there are major differences in the atmosphere in both clubs, and a difference in the lap dances. And it has nothing to do with trusting Josh isn't screwing around on me. There are some situations you just shouldn't be in, plain and simple. And one where a naked woman is offering to suck your dick after just rubbing her scantly clad pussy on it is one of those situations. And Josh agrees. That was his first lap dance(s) and he's done. He has no issue with going with his buddies for a B party and watching the groom get a big joking lap dance IN FRONT OF THEM ALL, but those kinds are all in good fun.
Dylan:
That still don't make a lick of sense, Nicole.
It shouldn't be okay for you to go to strip clubs to get lap dances but not okay for Josh. And you say that it's because of the offers he gets that he can't get those, I can't see why you would punish JOSH for something someone else said or offered. Now I'd only see it being an issue if Josh actually took the offer then yeah, BIG NO NO and NO MORE STRIP CLUB and big time DIVORCE but that is a big time DOUBLE STANDARD, if you can go but he can't. If Josh can't go to strip clubs than you shouldn't be able to go with your sisters. Because you never know, maybe the next strip club YOU will get the offer, you wouldn't want Josh to get mad at you because of something someone else offered? You didn't take it but you still got punished for it, where's the fairness in that?
Me:
I DID NOT say that he couldn't go to the clubs. I said he can't get lap dances. And even though I do think there are big differences in the dances girls and guys give I still am not going to be getting any more. And how am I having a double standard? Didn't you read what I wrote about me going with my sisters will end up being less of an amount of time then when Josh goes for his B parties? I am so not getting what is wrong with what I'm saying.
And that is dumb for saying it only matters if he takes the bait. It's like saying to Josh "Okay you can go out with your brother and his friends while they smoke pot as long as you don't accept when they offer it to you." Ummm No he just should not be there. Hello!
(Just for the record his brother doesn't smoke pot, I was just using that for an example.)
Daphne:
i think what nikks is trying to say is that.. .it's better to have preventative controls than detection controls. better to not put josh in the path where he could be tempted to do things like that (preventative) rather than find out later and get in a fight (detection)
Holly:
Which I understand. However, my issue is with her saying she'd get another lap dance, but Josh can't. How is THAT ok?
Me:
Umm if I said that it was a miss-type cause I think just a post or two ago I said that there are major differences in the two different type of lap dances but at the same time I won't be getting another.
Holly:
See, but I disagree, because even tho she's saying she doesn't want another one, she did say it would be OK if she wanted to, because it's not like it is when the men get them. See....
There are a lot more where that came from but I think you get the point of all of our sides. So now....what do you think??? Or maybe is it not as black and white to you? Fill me in, I'm all kinds of eager to hear your thoughts.
~ Nicole
Kids Say the Darnedest Things
9 years ago
Posts
25 Comments:
Okay just for the record Nicole...NOBODY looks good when you jack up the picture and zoom in til you can literally see his nose hairs..
...and let it be known that I never said that Carlos wasn't hot, he is, I just prefer Army Pants guy to Carlos, that's all.
You know my thoughts on the rest of all this.
That is not all zoomed! That is just his face, all I did was crop out the rest of his body and who he was dancing on. And if you can see his nose hairs it's cause HIS NOSE IS SOOOOO BIG!!! lol...
Now this is just my opinion, but I think going to strip clubs when you are in a serious relationship is dangerous. I have been in both a male and female strip club and nothing good has come out of it. It causes trouble at some point.
And, about the pictures of the guys... Carlos is hella HOT! The other guy is definitely NOT!
Jazz - It's very unusual for strippers to do anything like HJs or BJs. Not that it won't cost $300 to go to the VIP room. And not that it doesn't ever happen. Through the 60s and into the 70s everyone understood it went on, but since then strip clubs have become big business with multi-million dollar investments, and are becoming more mainstream with even couples going to clubs where only women dance (why I'm not sure). So those owners will not tolerate anything that breaks the law. If they find out a dancer is doing it, she will be out on her pretty little behind.
You're right that the experience is different for men and women in the clubs. The reality is that more men than women feel trapped by monogamy or at least strongly desire an outlet beyond their relationships, and more men than women feel they're not getting enough sex. So yes for men the lap dance is in some ways more serious and more an effort to have a sexual encounter WITHOUT having an affair and while being totally safe. So it is more about getting truly turned on. I think for women it's more play-acting. This is why its easier to get men to drop a lot of money. I've seen many men drop much more money in an evening at a club than it would cost to spend an hour or two with a really quality courtesan (i.e. classy prostitute). As far as pictures are concerned, I think it's mainly because men without shirts aren;t showing anything they couldn't in the street; the women are. And in some places the women are 100% nude; I don't think the men ever are (correct me if I'm wrong).
But you know some clubs do have a fun, party atmosphere. I remember the Olympic Gardens in Vegas that way, although it's more than 10 years since I was there. All the lap dances were done right where you were sitting, in view of others, as opposed to going to a special dark part of the room. I once was there with a colleague who was having his 23rd birthday and had never been to a club. I had more fun buying him dances than having any for myself.
Anyhow, I agree with your HOT and NOT. I'm 110% hetero, but confident enough to appreciate when a man is attractive and when he's not.
Al,
Thanks so much for stoping by and sharing a mans point of veiw on all of this. Even the Hot or Not. lol. And that is funny cause that is the exact club we were at, the one you went to 10 years ago. And they still did dances right where they sat but they also do them in these cubby type holes back in the wall. So whatever, I just didn't like the whole atmosphere. And just so you know, I've never been to an all nude male strip club but I know they have them. I have a friend that's been.
Season,
I think you are pretty much right. When we were first married I basically forbade it! (did I spell that word right? lol, oh well.) but for some reason I've become more lax, don't know why. But I still have my rules. B parties only and no more than 2 a year. And NO lap dances, Vegas was a one time deal. And I'm not really interested in going myself anymore, only if it was with my sisters for their first time. But the fact still remains that I really dont' think it's that big a deal for women to go, cause it is totally differant.
Louise,
First of all WELCOME to my blog, so glad you found me and like it!
And thanks for commenting! If you read what I wrote above to Season, I really am not a lap dance person either. The entire thing happend since we were in Vegas. But that was my first strip club ever. It was very fun, but definetly not something I want to make a habit of.
So, why is this a big deal? Nicks, is your hubby really pushing you to let him go to strip clubs and get lap dances? Or is this just a healthy debate? I can see the point on all sides, but I'm leaning more towards Dylan. Yes, there are two different atmospheres, and girls and guys do act differently in their respective clubs, but the reason they go is the same: to go with their SAME SEX friends/relatives to ogle at OPPOSITE SEX dancers. As long as you both allow each other to go, you both should allow the other to partake in the services of that club, as long as it doesn't include any form of sex. On a side note, would you join him if he asked you to go with him? I know of some couples who go to strip clubs together and they totally love it.
Drake,
No Josh isn't pressuring me to let him go. It's an understood that he can go for bachlor parties, and if they ask him to go any other time he either just says no or something cause I have no idea about it. But I know he's not going, he doesn't have the means to sneak around. He's either at work, home for lunch, with me, or when I'm at work he's with the kids.
And I don't think that lap dances are right. For whatever reason we had them done in Vegas but that's done. I don't think you should be having someone of the opposite sex dancing on you (turning you on) when your with someone else. Just my 2 cents.
And would I go to a girl strip club with Josh? Hey I'll try anything (well almost) once. But like I said they aren't a big part of my life so it would only happen in we were again in LV or if we went to AC over here.
You know, I thought I commented yesterday. *shakes head*
That second dude is soooo not hot. Blah. LOL The first one looks like he's got some crazy bushy eyebrows, but he has a nice body.
I find the big difference between female/male strippers is that when men watch women dance, they're in control. The women are there to please them. But when women watch male strippers, the men are still in control. They are very much in your face, in your personal space and it's not detached at all like it is when men "watch" women. That's just men objectifying women in that case. And at least male strippers have personalities too. LOL
OKies here is me: I agree that strip clubs are different for men and women. Men go to get turned on, or at least they do get turned on, but hey, they are easy. Show them a boob or two and they are good to go. Women are more about other things, like romance and some foreplay. Of course there are quite a few exceptions to this rule and a lot of women can and do get turned on by just watching a naked man but, it's my experience that most women go to strip clubs to have fun, ergo the atmosphere is different.
Now, regardless of this, people in serious relationships shouldn't be going to strip clubs unless it's a bachelor or bachelorette's party. Even then I believe BOTH men and women should either be ok with their partners getting lap dances or touched or both be against it. I don't believe in rules or forcing or telling anyone what to do. I need to know THEY wnt to do it and not because I told them I didn't want them to. In the end the same rule applies to both because, regardless of the reason [to get horny or for fun] it still involves someone other than your significant other feeling you up ergo that's why I think both partners should be yay or nay about it.
One last thing, I believe that people in serious relationships shouldn't go to strip clubs but NOT to prevent temptation. If the man or woman is that easily swayed then the relationship isn't solid enough. Adults are not supposed to be like children where you have to take temptation away so they don't do the wrong thing. I just think the going for something other than a bachelor or bachelorettes party is a signal that something isn't right when your parnter needs or wants to see other people naked for the hell of it.
I hope I made some sense. LOL.
^_^
Ames,
I guess your kinda right although I never thought of it that way. Hmmm, good points. I can always count on you for a good womans point of view. lol.
Mailyn,
I couldn't have said it better myself. Acutally I didn't that's why I had a million emails about it. I completely agree. And though Josh and I never disscussed his thoughts on it he's never even broached the subject unless it was for a bachlor party. So I guess we're good. The only thing that I differ on is that I would go with my sisters when they go for their first time and that is not a bachlorette party. But still same idea, we'd be going just to mark a time in their history and for fun. And it would be a one time thing.
Ok, but see, y'all are still missing the point of my argument. The thing is, Niks is telling me that though she chooses NOT to have a lap dance, she COULD if she wanted, but Josh COULDN'T, even if he wanted to.
I'm sorry, but it's either one way or the other. Either NEITHER of you can do it or BOTH of you can. It's a total double standard otherwise.
I completely agree about the relationship end of it. We had a good time going in Vegas, but it's not something that should be done all the time (remember my three day rule? LOL) but that wasn't my argument. Perhaps the women side is different, but that doesn't make it right for one partner to say "It's ok for me and not for you". So, tell me, is it ok for Nikki to say, "Even though I'm not interested in doing it again, I could if I felt like it, but even if Josh feels like it, he's not allowed"? Because THAT is what I think is wrong. Either you're both bound by the same rules or you aren't.
I would have commented on all of this but Holly said everything that I wanted to say and to clarify so yeah, WHAT HOLLY SAID.
Well can Josh go with one of his friends for their first time? It's just a one time thing?
LOL, stirring the pot.
Shut up Dylan I'm not getting into more of it. lol.
Holly, Not that I could and he couldn't, cause I don't tell him what he can and can't do. I just tell him what I want and hope he respects my wishes enough to listen. It's just that I don't think it's as big a deal for women as it is for men.
Holly IDID answer your question! :-P Here, I'll quote myself:
I believe BOTH men and women should either be ok with their partners getting lap dances or touched or both be against it...it still involves someone other than your significant other feeling you up ergo that's why I think both partners should be yay or nay about it.
See? I did pay attention in class! LOL. In case that didn't make sense [and I know I ramble sometimes] I agree with you that either both partners should be OK with each other getting lap dances or both should be against it. It can't be that one partner is OK with the significant other getting a dance while the other thinks it's not OK that that partnet gets one. What's good for one should be good enough for the other because {and I quote myself}
In the end the same rule applies to both because, regardless of the reason [to get horny or for fun] it still involves someone other than your significant other feeling you up
OK, I didn't think quoting myself would be so much fun. LMAO!
I'm not opposed to my husband going to strip clubs. He has over the years but never to hang out. For one thing there are none in our state close by...folks have to go to the next state for a quick "sin" fix. LOL.
So time and distance are 2 factors but the other is money. It's not cheap and we always keep an eye on the bottom line, rather than someone else's bottom.
;-)
The atmosphere is different in men's vs. women's clubs. For sure. The only thing I've ever asked for is mutal respect from my spouse. Not to do what he wouldn't want me to do...To each their own, IMO.
If that made any sense this late at night.LOL
Sandie
I tend to agree with you Jazz, but when I bring it up to the bf her freaks. He thinks it's the exact same thing and doesn't want me anywhere near male strip clubs.
Although I would like to see what it's all about some day, I get tired of arguing the point that it's not the same. In the end it's just not that important to me so I told him it's all a moot point.
As for hot or not ... I have very strong opinions on what is hot. And though that guy has the bod, he aint got the face for me. And another thing, I don't trust a man with a bod like that. It's got cheater written all over it! LOL!
I tend to agree with you Jazz. First, the second boy is all sorts of ugly. Ew. I'd pay for him to keep his clothing on. But that's just my personal taste (besides the fact that I don't usually like white boys).
Male strip clubs are different than female strip clubs. First, men are extremely turned on by seeing the naked female form. Male strip clubs are very very sexualized. Now, I'm not saying that female strip clubs are different. But looking at a naked guy is a bit different for me. I'm not usually turned on watching guys gyrate on stage. It's more humorous and fun than sexual for me. I think it's very different, but what do I know?
I'm with you Jazz.
#1 = hott
#2 = not so much
SORRY MAILYN! I saw that you'd agreed with me, I just didn't mention it. MY BAD! I LOVE YOU! LOL
Jazz, let's just chalk this one up to "agree to disagree" or, in the real world "Holly and Dylan are right and Jazz is just a crackhead" LOL J/K You know I love you. :)
Holly,
Oh I agree to disagree with you and Dyland but it's good to see I have so many on my side in here. lol.
Team Gingerbread,
We have taste!
Mermaid,
That's my point Men (going not dancing)=sexual, Women(same)=Fun. And I usually don't like the white boys either. That's why it's a shocker I married Josh. lol. But I love him.
Zeek,
That was my first strip culb, and while it was fun I'd only do it again for my sisters or something like that.
Sandi,
SOOOO true. It was alot cheaper in Vegas than it is here. I would never pay the price here (well not often. lol)
LMAO, yeah and I again I say it...WHAT HOLLY SAID! haha...because you ARE a crackhead, Nicole...LMAO. Love you!
Big Boobs,
I hear they do at some places, but they didn't at this place. Just down to their thongs.
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